Comments on: The Poverty of PPE, Episode Six http://virtualstoa.net/2008/03/05/the-poverty-of-ppe-episode-six/ Chris Brooke's Weblog Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:49:23 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Joseph Harder http://virtualstoa.net/2008/03/05/the-poverty-of-ppe-episode-six/#comment-177028 Joseph Harder Sun, 09 Mar 2008 22:17:28 +0000 http://virtualstoa.net/2008/03/05/the-poverty-of-ppe-episode-six/#comment-177028 When Michael Dummett(admittedly an exceptional case) studied PPE at Christ Church in the late forties,His politics tutor was Robert Blake, his economics tutor was Roy Harrod( I think, he was economics fellow at Christ Church at the time),and his philosophy tutors were J.O Urmson, Michael Foster,and, oddly enough ,Antony Flew. (even though his real tutor was G.E.M Anscombe). He tooka paper on "epistemology", designed by J.L Austin,which employed set texts which included Platos Meno, Aquinas' de Veritate,Descartes' Meditations, the standard Locke/Berkely/ Hume stuff, Kant etc. ,amnd which ended with Freges Basic Laws of Arithmetic. When Charles Taylor(another exceptional case)studied PPE at Balliol in the Mid fifties( he apparently originally came to Oxford hoping to work on theology with Austin Farrer-at least that what his close friend Hauerwas once told me,) he found the "sub-sub Hume" taught there boring, and eventually found relief studying Merleau Ponty , Heidegger, Marx, Hegel. He ended up, like Dummett, winning an All Souls fellowship. When Michael Dummett(admittedly an exceptional case) studied PPE at Christ Church in the late forties,His politics tutor was Robert Blake, his economics tutor was Roy Harrod( I think, he was economics fellow at Christ Church at the time),and his philosophy tutors were J.O Urmson, Michael Foster,and, oddly enough ,Antony Flew. (even though his real tutor was G.E.M Anscombe).
He tooka paper on “epistemology”, designed by J.L Austin,which employed set texts which included Platos Meno, Aquinas’ de Veritate,Descartes’ Meditations, the standard Locke/Berkely/ Hume stuff, Kant etc. ,amnd which ended with Freges Basic Laws of Arithmetic.
When Charles Taylor(another exceptional case)studied PPE at Balliol in the Mid fifties( he apparently originally came to Oxford hoping to work on theology with Austin Farrer-at least that what his close friend Hauerwas once told me,) he found the “sub-sub Hume” taught there boring, and eventually found relief studying Merleau Ponty , Heidegger, Marx, Hegel. He ended up, like Dummett, winning an All Souls fellowship.

]]> By: cliche guevara http://virtualstoa.net/2008/03/05/the-poverty-of-ppe-episode-six/#comment-174850 cliche guevara Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:07:44 +0000 http://virtualstoa.net/2008/03/05/the-poverty-of-ppe-episode-six/#comment-174850 "And then they changed it again a few years ago, as you know, to de-emphasise the idea of a set text altogether" and also to de-emphasise the idea of knowing anything about epistemology and metaphysics at all, let alone seeing how a philosophical thinker takes a set of problems and deals with them carefully and considerately. Instead it is far better to do 'bite-size' philosophy and regurgitate crap in exams, never achieving anything like a foundation for your future philosophical thinking, although you do of course have the option of repeating all the same stuff, at a slightly harder level, under the guise of "Knowledge and Reality". “And then they changed it again a few years ago, as you know, to de-emphasise the idea of a set text altogether”

and also to de-emphasise the idea of knowing anything about epistemology and metaphysics at all, let alone seeing how a philosophical thinker takes a set of problems and deals with them carefully and considerately. Instead it is far better to do ‘bite-size’ philosophy and regurgitate crap in exams, never achieving anything like a foundation for your future philosophical thinking, although you do of course have the option of repeating all the same stuff, at a slightly harder level, under the guise of “Knowledge and Reality”.

]]> By: Chris Brooke http://virtualstoa.net/2008/03/05/the-poverty-of-ppe-episode-six/#comment-174789 Chris Brooke Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:20:34 +0000 http://virtualstoa.net/2008/03/05/the-poverty-of-ppe-episode-six/#comment-174789 I wouldn't worry too much. I wouldn’t worry too much.

]]> By: Ben http://virtualstoa.net/2008/03/05/the-poverty-of-ppe-episode-six/#comment-174778 Ben Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:38:34 +0000 http://virtualstoa.net/2008/03/05/the-poverty-of-ppe-episode-six/#comment-174778 When I came, it was first year Descartes, with the second year a chocie of Descartes to Kant or 20Cth met&ep. Now the first years do a more general met&ep course, mostly modern with some historical authors, and second years can do either Plato, Aristotle or Descartes-Kant (i.e. they have to do some history, but it needn't be met&ep*) What was the first year like in 1968? Any idea? *I do worry that anyone taking Ethics and Nicomachean Ethics, along with (perhaps) Aesthetics and Theory of Politics, could do have their degree in philosophy but not cover much breadth at all... When I came, it was first year Descartes, with the second year a chocie of Descartes to Kant or 20Cth met&ep. Now the first years do a more general met&ep course, mostly modern with some historical authors, and second years can do either Plato, Aristotle or Descartes-Kant (i.e. they have to do some history, but it needn’t be met&ep*)

What was the first year like in 1968? Any idea?

*I do worry that anyone taking Ethics and Nicomachean Ethics, along with (perhaps) Aesthetics and Theory of Politics, could do have their degree in philosophy but not cover much breadth at all…

]]> By: Chris Brooke http://virtualstoa.net/2008/03/05/the-poverty-of-ppe-episode-six/#comment-174719 Chris Brooke Wed, 05 Mar 2008 09:43:34 +0000 http://virtualstoa.net/2008/03/05/the-poverty-of-ppe-episode-six/#comment-174719 Yes -- this is about Finals, not Prelims. For a long time the first years studied Hume in General Philosophy at Prelims; I think I did Prelims in the first year that Descartes was the set text (1993). And then they changed it again a few years ago, as you know, to de-emphasise the idea of a set text altogether I don't know when the General Philosophy compulsory Finals paper was abolished (alternatively: transformed itself into the current History of Philosophy from Descartes to Kant paper). I probably should. Yes — this is about Finals, not Prelims.

For a long time the first years studied Hume in General Philosophy at Prelims; I think I did Prelims in the first year that Descartes was the set text (1993). And then they changed it again a few years ago, as you know, to de-emphasise the idea of a set text altogether

I don’t know when the General Philosophy compulsory Finals paper was abolished (alternatively: transformed itself into the current History of Philosophy from Descartes to Kant paper). I probably should.

]]> By: Ben http://virtualstoa.net/2008/03/05/the-poverty-of-ppe-episode-six/#comment-174718 Ben Wed, 05 Mar 2008 09:36:27 +0000 http://virtualstoa.net/2008/03/05/the-poverty-of-ppe-episode-six/#comment-174718 It's interesting that, when I came here, the first year paper had been reduced to simply Descartes, but now the new General Philosophy syllabus is more general and contemporary, albeit with reference to Descartes, Locke, Berkeley and Hume - maybe it's now more like it was in Pateman's day. This, though, is the first year foundational stuff, with the option to study more widely in the second year, whereas it sounds to me as if he's talking about FHS. It’s interesting that, when I came here, the first year paper had been reduced to simply Descartes, but now the new General Philosophy syllabus is more general and contemporary, albeit with reference to Descartes, Locke, Berkeley and Hume - maybe it’s now more like it was in Pateman’s day. This, though, is the first year foundational stuff, with the option to study more widely in the second year, whereas it sounds to me as if he’s talking about FHS.

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